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Interview Interview Arno Klarsfeld


Interview by David Reinharc

We already knew Arno Klarsfeld brilliant lawyer during the trial Touvier and Papon. It was
witnesses, too, his stance necessarily media, however, always courageous.
And today, unpredictable, suiting the action to the word, he takes on the military fatigues and joined the Israeli army.
the occasion of Israel's exit Transit, a book of interviews where he tells what he saw and experienced, we wanted to know, of his convictions and his life, two or three more things. Because an interview with Master Klarsfeld is certainly an unusual encounter.

David Reinharc: Will he Arno Klarsfeld for a "before" and "after" experience in the Israeli army?

Arno Klarsfeld: Sure. Each experience will change and this one was significant.
Yes, I come out calm, more in tune with myself and with what I think.

DR: How do you explain that the most moral army is also the most reviled?

AK: Oh, it is not always moral. In unit near the mine, on the other side of Bethlehem, there were two soldiers who were interviewed for committing abuses on the Palestinians. In Hebron, soldiers threw two Palestinians in a jeep running.
Do not hide because in all armies in the world, there are bullies and bastards.
course, the suffering of the Palestinians is more than regrettable. But we must compare this to other situations of war and there, Israel is behaving much better than other countries.
When you're there, it's true that soldiers face to civilians and that they are lining up. But otherwise we have attacks.
In 1967, Moshe Dayan opened East Jerusalem and West Jerusalem. Barriers or checkpoints because then there were no attacks and not the propaganda of hatred of the PLO.
And it is clear that suicide attacks started after he had this very violent anti-Semitic propaganda in the Territories.
Like it or not, what is learned in childhood stay with you forever and it is impossible to discard it. This is the case of this propaganda.
In Israel, of course, there is sometimes drifts but which cause immediate protests. In every way, nothing like what we hear in the mosques or on Palestinian television.
The European collective consciousness is more accustomed to seeing Jews as victims of army prepared to defend themselves ...

DR

You write that "the democratization of the Arab world is an absolute necessity." Join
you commitments of the neocons who, unlike the supporters of the "clash of civilizations" want the emergence of democracies can integrate Civilization?

AK : Neoconservatives have realized that the strategy to contain dictatorships is obsolete. They also understood that terrorists could strike the U.S. homeland and that therefore it was better to take the war elsewhere.
Where are the most dangerous dictators in Iraq and the Middle East.
They would probably abstain if there had been no September 11.
And since the Iraq war, there has not been a single attack on American soil. While all the terrorists there, dream only of one thing: hit the United States.
So first a good defensive strategy National is also the duty of a State to protect its citizens.
Then, in dictatorships, most people are poor and only a minority is rich. These guys are stirring up hatred and scapegoating. If it does not dictatorships, if not attack, they are gaining ground. It became necessary to go there.
And even if it is a consequence of the war more than its true cause, the Iraqis are and will be happier in a democracy.

DR: Should you believe that the Americans attack Iran now?

AK: I do not think America will let Iran have nuclear weapons.
I remember it only takes one bomb to end Israel.
And the Iranians have warned with a bomb, it destroys Israel while for us, a few bombs affect very little the Islamic world.
They do not care the lives of their fellow citizens ...

DR: German Lutheran mother, French father and a Jew: you play a little Franco-German entente.
What is your feeling about Europe as it tries hard to exist?

AK: I think the French have listened to the voices of the demagogues. And they are the enemies of Israel and the Jewish people who rejoice: the extreme right and extreme left.
Voting 'no' is a very bad thing.
The extreme right is anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli as the extreme left which has a high anti-Jewish sentiment. We saw the parade with portraits of Saddam Hussein's glory and signs: "Bush / Sharon assassins."
Le Pen in the second round of presidential elections, one third of French people declared for victory Saddam Hussein, "no" to Europe: no cause for celebration!

DR: How do you reconcile your European credo, your love of Israel and your esteem for America?

AK: I feel European because I feel at home everywhere in Europe. Israel, because I did the army I speak the language and there, I feel at home.
American, because I studied in America.
So yes, for now I reconciled the three with a commitment to freedom and individuality.
These values are strongly worn by Israel, America and Europe.

DR: Would you support Israel's entry into Europe?

AK: I think Israel will agree with the Arab world.
The Middle East must allow the personality of the Israeli people speak without wanting to overwhelm or destroy it.
Israel has no place in a Middle Eastern federation in Europe, where the Jewish state would be more defensive position.

DR: What do you think Project of the disengagement from Gaza?
Do not you fear that the territory becomes a base for terrorists?

AK: The Israelis can not stand there. The "settlers" will hold a third of the country while only 1 .3 million Palestinians live in refugee camps.
I think it is better to withdraw from Gaza. In any case, we will have to return to the '67 borders.

DR: This is a shift in Jewish population.
If the Arabs had been displaced, I guess the world would have cried scandal ...

AK: Yes, but we can also say that there were 650,000 "displaced" the Arab side who can not return home while blacks and Russians, not necessarily Jews, including live! But also
900 000 Jews were forced to leave Arab countries after independence
... In all ways, Israel is forced to leave Gaza for peace!

DR: Palestinians calling for a country without Jews, it starts badly, right?

AK: It's true that I often wondered why there could be 400 Jews living in Hebron. How does it bother them?
Well, it bothers them. And I think there are advantages to withdraw from Gaza.
Israelis must remain firm on some positions as the 1949 armistice borders or Jerusalem.

DR: The Palestinians want three states: the future Palestinian state, with Israel claiming a right of return and Jordan where they predominate.
Exits to choose the "Jordanian option" t you think it feasible?

A. K. : It is not possible because First, it's too late, a government perspective.
And Jordanians were there too, they are led by a Hashemite and can not return to the borders of a State.

DR: One of your friends ask you what need have you of "playing the fool on the Green Line?
Are you proud of your parents, do you act one way to make them proud of you?

AK: Sure, I'm glad they are proud of me.
But if I did this experiment is first for me. I do not think that through it they are proud of me ...

DR: You carry the name of a man deported to Auschwitz.
Your fight for Israel is there a way to help your father to close a parenthesis, to the extent possible, preserve the future generations?

AK: Yes, Serge's father was deported to Auschwitz. When he arrived there, a Kappo hit him and he knocked it Kappo. It's a play for me, unconsciously
... There are probably the weight of the grandfather.
The weight or spice to advance a lazy like me ...

DR: What are your plans?
For our readers, can you tell if you are planning to get married ...?

AK: Not at this time. I will assist Serge
for different things and I have to leave the United States. Perhaps in an American university.

DR: A project to install in Israel?

AK: I could easily live in Jerusalem.

interview published in Israel Magazine No. 55

Free Rabbit Hutch Blueprints

Francis Lalanne

Lalaine released: "Skizogrammes (Bibliophane. Daniel Radford),
in the collection" Trace
directed by David Reinharc



Interview by David Reinharc

We were all present at the ceremony of Yom Hatsmaout the Synagogue de la Victoire. The synagogue, dressed for the occasion suits color light of Israel, has hosted personalities including Jewish accompanied by Francis Lalanne who sang Israeli songs.
great opportunity to experience this mountebank studious artist with multiple facets that we must side with the greatest. For
Francis Lalanne, is not just a showman, but also and primarily a poet who does not dare say airs but without any cynicism, what he thinks is right.
Whether or not to be surprised by his long hair, his white shirt notched his side pushers, it is clear that it remains itself, ie, a great dreamer in a complex world in his own way, it helps us to decode.

David Reinharc: Singer, songwriter, actor, film producer, clown and juggler, glass blower, series editor, poet, writer, entrepreneur and active citizen: How do I present to you, Francis Lalanne?

Francis Lalanne: Poet. Insofar as I am acting in the direction of my imagination. Poet, ie both the doer and he who creates. Poetry is the Create Action. That sums up my life I Creager.

DR: Would you "créactionnaire?

FL: I am a créacteur.

DR. : Your presence at the Synagogue de la Victoire at the ceremony of Yom Ha'atzmaut, editing a book in a publishing house run by the editor, writer and Rabbi Daniel Radford: this approximation to Israel and Judaism come from by far, something buried in you long or is it cyclical?

FL: One day I arrived in Israel to make a TV show, I had to stay two days and I stayed two months.
It was a thunderbolt, a revelation.
I learned about this country, to love and I learned to know and love these people so much that I felt to be a part.
It was for me a sort of obvious: not something I thought about it but where I reflected and projected.
Yes, I had this feeling of belonging to this people, this community of ideas, his world view in which I found mine.
And it happens that when I came on this earth, I was unable to have children with the woman of my life. I went to the Kotel, I prayed. Nine months later I had a baby and other children followed
... For more than five years, I was told that there was no solution, I asked God to the Western Wall he sends me a child nine months later, yes, I was a father. Or was it a
coincidence, or it is a resonance: between, suddenly, I on land and part of me in heaven, guarded by angels.
There were too many coincidences and incidents in my meeting with Israel that I am not overwhelmed by an infinite love for this land and the people who inhabit it.
a time when a new wave of anti-Semitism is ravaging the world, who increasingly found a mask and pretext "humanist" of Zionism, it is essential to show my sympathy and my love of Israel and Jews around the world.
silence today is worse than a confession. Keeping quiet about this new form of persecution of the Jewish people is a way of condoning.
For my attachment to Israel, I refuse, for my part, of the bond. I view very openly and my sympathy and my love for Israel.

DR: You wrote a piece recounting the letters of denunciation during the Occupation.
Silence, tell you, is worse than a confession: as now, do not resist the Zionist cursers, the propagandists of comfortable certainties, is not it behave as a collaborator?

FL: I'm not at war against the Palestinians or against those who support their cause.
I think these people are wrong enemy. Their main enemy is themselves.
I think the strength of Israel is to be able to not be the enemy of his enemy. We must put an end to this war and only Israel is capable of. Because Israel has more maturity in this conflict that those who today claim its destruction and its eradication position completely immature.

DR: The only solution then it is unilateralist?

FL: I am not for unilateral withdrawal under current conditions. When
duels against someone, not to destroy but to save him from his own violence.
There are certainly exogenous to take measures to ensure the safety of the people of Israel but, also, to develop a discourse of openness towards his enemies. For
who benefits? Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians but to the economic powers that have an interest in preventing a conflict this territory to organize themselves to be competitive with those that dominate the economic market today.

DR: Is it mostly does not benefit the Arab governments to crystallize on the Israeli-Palestinian frustration and discontent of their people?

FL: This to me is a result of alliances that benefit those who dominate the economy.
Arab countries that are in this configuration there are countries which, coincidentally, have a non-aggression pacts and military cooperation with the United States. And who willingly abandoned oil wells and the direction of OPEC to Bush.
When Mr. Bush went to war against Saddam Hussein, it is strange at the end of the war, he signed a nonaggression pact with him. Why sign a nonaggression pact with the one who came to deliver you? In this pact, it is stipulated that the U.S. military will leave oil on all databases. However, it is not military but they left oil technicians. Therefore, at the slightest touch of Trafalgar, all oil wells fell to the United States.
forces that dominate the market Economic and now want to impose their law in the world have an interest in Jews and Arabs can not agree.
For me, the solution to this conflict is neither philosophical nor religious nor political but economic.
Arabs must realize that by joining together with the Jews, they will become the largest economy in the world.
If this realization takes place, it's the end of the conflict.

DR: This idyllic vision she does not ignore the betrayal by their mission of Arab intellectuals, the ones who chose to flatter detestation Israel presented as evil entity rather than fighting?

FL: I am simply saying that Israel must remain braced on its borders, refuses to abandon elements of its sovereignty to the Palestinians in exchange for nothing. Yes, in front, there is always, implicitly, the objective of eradicating Israel.
First, Israel must consolidate its national sovereignty, holds the safety of its inhabitants, on the other hand, should turn to his enemies as friends. And try initiate a dialogue turned to a partnership project economically.

DR: So you are advocating a fusion of peoples.
When a couple does not agree, the best solution is it not rather the separation?

FL: This is not a merger but that it is an agreement.
And we can not base an agreement on the proposed elimination of the two parties. That is why Israel must strengthen the security of its nationals for be a part physically able to get along with each other.
The land belongs to those who have grown, those trees were pushed over. We want with political and religious views have us believe that there is a political potentiality that existed before, we believe that those who cultivated the land do not own. It is not possible.
is introduced logical reasoning into a mathematical truth.
I mean, the reality today is not the logical reasoning of a Jew or a Palestinian. What the Israelis that Israel is Today, it is this mathematical truth: this country was established, fertilized, built by people of Jewish history who gave the keys of this territory, and who have been growing trees in the desert .
In the name of objectivity, Israel must remain with those who developed, produced, created this state.
To achieve peace, we must at some point that one party has enough experience, intelligence, positivity, strength and courage to find the words and ideas that one can not find.
And if I have faith in Israel if I express my love for this land, because I think he has that strength, that intelligence, courage and maturity, experience of persecution which gives this self-preservation and sense of diplomacy and the other.
I think in any form of political reasoning, there is a soul and body. It must come to consolidate Israel's sovereignty by preventing what is politically designed to challenge the sovereignty and at the same time, find the path to those who want to destroy that sovereignty.
The path I propose is because economic thinking on the theme philosophical, religious and political, there were too many misunderstandings, blood and war.
The solution will come when the leaders of these states understand that conflicting uses the conflict in question to take away their market leadership that should be theirs.

DR: You were involved in a campaign of solidarity with the people of Darfur.
I read that you call the American intervention in Iraq a "crime against humanity"!
regard to Darfur, ethnic cleansing, systematic rape, crimes racist genocidal intent, would you describe U.S. intervention as "neocolonial" or criminal?

FL: Yes, if it's American. No, if it meets the concert of nations.
Today the government of the United States presents itself as the state that rules the world, who has the right to violate the agreements between nations. Even if he is right
in an intervention, it is wrong to reason.
I'm not saying that we should not intervene in Darfur, but if it is the U.S. involved in Darfur without the concert of nations is, in any Clearly, a company policy.

DR: Can not find they have difficulty, the "concert of nations", to take resolutions that can be rapidly translated into reality?

FL: No, there was, for example, proposals on Iraq.
We can not believe today in the cleanliness of the intentions of the government of the United States.

DR: Darfur, always, a war that was five to one hundred times more deaths than the Arab-Israeli conflict : How do you deal with the reporting of crimes against humanity of black civilians in Darfur, I found your name, Patrick Bruel, but not that of Dieudonne?

FL: Dieudonne, I do not understand what he does, what he says.
I am sorry for him to be in this state there.
I think this guy has a personal problem that I can not identify and would like to extend to humanity. But I think it will not make it, in any case, it is hoped.

DR: I've interviewed as a concerned citizen. Let me now turn to the poet ...

FL: For all the questions you asked, I tried to build pictures to explain things.
Is it my role, really? I am not a politician, I am a man of poetry.
I have an ideal vision of humanity and I was naive enough to believe that either the intelligence to believe I do not think the simplicity is the opposite of intelligence, my ideal vision will come true one day .
My role is to say without political bias, but with poetry. And today, there is a bias against Israel which is the indictment of humanity.
I do not take part against the Palestinians, I just think that men who absolutely refuse the idea of agreeing with other men are wrong.
In the speech of Israel, there is always a lot of humanity.

DR: You get out a book of poetry as a Pantoum. What
of Pantoum?

FL: It is a kind of intimate samba, dance backwards which creates a form of pleasure in slow repetition.
We're in a world that is coming to schizophrenia, ie the difficulty to situate its own limitations.
Suddenly, in confronting this situation, it can also reverse: taking a form impossible to draw the line is also giving shape to the formless.
I faced it in writing this book, not destroy my demon, but tame it, domesticate it.
What I tried to do is tame, control, channel my demon.

DR: As in Rimbaud's formula: "I is another"?

FL: Yeah. When Rimbaud said: "I is another," he talks about what I say on pantoum and duality.
This demon I have spoken of controlling Goethe is also giving free rein to dialogue with the angel.
I managed to avoid total disruption of my mind by practicing pantoum, which is a form of expression contained and controlled poetics of schizophrenia.

DR: Did you write this book for not going insane?

FL: In this case, not to sink into my madness.
Madness is an extraordinary ocean. You can swim in and drown.
I write to swim in this ocean and to avoid drowning.

DR: Your album "Reptiles" comes out: do you feel more comfortable in the rytmn'blues in world music or Groove?

FL: I feel at ease as soon as a form of music is expressed in a natural way.
I'm open to all forms of music but in each genre, there are places where I feel it's natural - or not - for me.
In this album, I am enriched by meeting people who came from another musical universe than me.
our differences, we have a richness and not a conflict. That's how I see the relationship one day between Jews and Arabs.

DR: Would you sing in Israel?

FL: Absolutely. I dream of that!

interview published in Israel Magazine No. 66