Interview by David Reinharc
We already knew Arno Klarsfeld brilliant lawyer during the trial Touvier and Papon. It was
witnesses, too, his stance necessarily media, however, always courageous.
And today, unpredictable, suiting the action to the word, he takes on the military fatigues and joined the Israeli army.
the occasion of Israel's exit Transit, a book of interviews where he tells what he saw and experienced, we wanted to know, of his convictions and his life, two or three more things. Because an interview with Master Klarsfeld is certainly an unusual encounter.
David Reinharc: Will he Arno Klarsfeld for a "before" and "after" experience in the Israeli army?
Arno Klarsfeld: Sure. Each experience will change and this one was significant.
Yes, I come out calm, more in tune with myself and with what I think.
DR: How do you explain that the most moral army is also the most reviled?
AK: Oh, it is not always moral. In unit near the mine, on the other side of Bethlehem, there were two soldiers who were interviewed for committing abuses on the Palestinians. In Hebron, soldiers threw two Palestinians in a jeep running.
Do not hide because in all armies in the world, there are bullies and bastards.
course, the suffering of the Palestinians is more than regrettable. But we must compare this to other situations of war and there, Israel is behaving much better than other countries.
When you're there, it's true that soldiers face to civilians and that they are lining up. But otherwise we have attacks.
In 1967, Moshe Dayan opened East Jerusalem and West Jerusalem. Barriers or checkpoints because then there were no attacks and not the propaganda of hatred of the PLO.
And it is clear that suicide attacks started after he had this very violent anti-Semitic propaganda in the Territories.
Like it or not, what is learned in childhood stay with you forever and it is impossible to discard it. This is the case of this propaganda.
In Israel, of course, there is sometimes drifts but which cause immediate protests. In every way, nothing like what we hear in the mosques or on Palestinian television.
The European collective consciousness is more accustomed to seeing Jews as victims of army prepared to defend themselves ...
You write that "the democratization of the Arab world is an absolute necessity." Join
you commitments of the neocons who, unlike the supporters of the "clash of civilizations" want the emergence of democracies can integrate Civilization?
AK : Neoconservatives have realized that the strategy to contain dictatorships is obsolete. They also understood that terrorists could strike the U.S. homeland and that therefore it was better to take the war elsewhere.
Where are the most dangerous dictators in Iraq and the Middle East.
They would probably abstain if there had been no September 11.
And since the Iraq war, there has not been a single attack on American soil. While all the terrorists there, dream only of one thing: hit the United States.
So first a good defensive strategy National is also the duty of a State to protect its citizens.
Then, in dictatorships, most people are poor and only a minority is rich. These guys are stirring up hatred and scapegoating. If it does not dictatorships, if not attack, they are gaining ground. It became necessary to go there.
And even if it is a consequence of the war more than its true cause, the Iraqis are and will be happier in a democracy.
DR: Should you believe that the Americans attack Iran now?
AK: I do not think America will let Iran have nuclear weapons.
I remember it only takes one bomb to end Israel.
And the Iranians have warned with a bomb, it destroys Israel while for us, a few bombs affect very little the Islamic world.
They do not care the lives of their fellow citizens ...
DR: German Lutheran mother, French father and a Jew: you play a little Franco-German entente.
What is your feeling about Europe as it tries hard to exist?
AK: I think the French have listened to the voices of the demagogues. And they are the enemies of Israel and the Jewish people who rejoice: the extreme right and extreme left.
Voting 'no' is a very bad thing.
The extreme right is anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli as the extreme left which has a high anti-Jewish sentiment. We saw the parade with portraits of Saddam Hussein's glory and signs: "Bush / Sharon assassins."
Le Pen in the second round of presidential elections, one third of French people declared for victory Saddam Hussein, "no" to Europe: no cause for celebration!
DR: How do you reconcile your European credo, your love of Israel and your esteem for America?
AK: I feel European because I feel at home everywhere in Europe. Israel, because I did the army I speak the language and there, I feel at home.
American, because I studied in America.
So yes, for now I reconciled the three with a commitment to freedom and individuality.
These values are strongly worn by Israel, America and Europe.
DR: Would you support Israel's entry into Europe?
AK: I think Israel will agree with the Arab world.
The Middle East must allow the personality of the Israeli people speak without wanting to overwhelm or destroy it.
Israel has no place in a Middle Eastern federation in Europe, where the Jewish state would be more defensive position.
DR: What do you think Project of the disengagement from Gaza?
Do not you fear that the territory becomes a base for terrorists?
AK: The Israelis can not stand there. The "settlers" will hold a third of the country while only 1 .3 million Palestinians live in refugee camps.
I think it is better to withdraw from Gaza. In any case, we will have to return to the '67 borders.
DR: This is a shift in Jewish population.
If the Arabs had been displaced, I guess the world would have cried scandal ...
AK: Yes, but we can also say that there were 650,000 "displaced" the Arab side who can not return home while blacks and Russians, not necessarily Jews, including live! But also
900 000 Jews were forced to leave Arab countries after independence
... In all ways, Israel is forced to leave Gaza for peace!
DR: Palestinians calling for a country without Jews, it starts badly, right?
AK: It's true that I often wondered why there could be 400 Jews living in Hebron. How does it bother them?
Well, it bothers them. And I think there are advantages to withdraw from Gaza.
Israelis must remain firm on some positions as the 1949 armistice borders or Jerusalem.
DR: The Palestinians want three states: the future Palestinian state, with Israel claiming a right of return and Jordan where they predominate.
Exits to choose the "Jordanian option" t you think it feasible?
A. K. : It is not possible because First, it's too late, a government perspective.
And Jordanians were there too, they are led by a Hashemite and can not return to the borders of a State.
DR: One of your friends ask you what need have you of "playing the fool on the Green Line?
Are you proud of your parents, do you act one way to make them proud of you?
AK: Sure, I'm glad they are proud of me.
But if I did this experiment is first for me. I do not think that through it they are proud of me ...
DR: You carry the name of a man deported to Auschwitz.
Your fight for Israel is there a way to help your father to close a parenthesis, to the extent possible, preserve the future generations?
AK: Yes, Serge's father was deported to Auschwitz. When he arrived there, a Kappo hit him and he knocked it Kappo. It's a play for me, unconsciously
... There are probably the weight of the grandfather.
The weight or spice to advance a lazy like me ...
DR: What are your plans?
For our readers, can you tell if you are planning to get married ...?
AK: Not at this time. I will assist Serge
for different things and I have to leave the United States. Perhaps in an American university.
DR: A project to install in Israel?
AK: I could easily live in Jerusalem.
interview published in Israel Magazine No. 55
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